California Sunshine

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Posts by California Sunshine

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  16

  Part 11: The Amalgamated Wedding

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  part 11: the amalgamated wedding .

  by now, tensions between the elders and me had subsided.

  we were gearing up for the wedding.

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  California Sunshine

  I'm gonna have to go into recovery when I get done reading this story Amazing!

  I am sooooo addicted!
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  75

  Giving Up Smoking

  by ballistic in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm giving up smoking on the 22nd.

  it will be the third time, but this time as part of a government sponsored training course with drugs and patches supplied etc.

  anyone else given up and got any helpfull advise?.

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  California Sunshine

  ballistic...

  You are the man!!!!!!

  You are almost over the toughest part of it.

  I come back and look at this thread every couple of days to see if you have posted. I'm so happy you are doing so well.

  Got anything special in mind to spend that "chunk of change" you've saved on? Do something nice for yourself. You deserve it.

  Sunny (with a big smile on her face)
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  19

  Emily is Sick and in the hospital.

  by Undecided in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  bad news again.

  my little grand daughter has the pneumonia and other viral infections and is very ill and in the hospital.

  this really hurts.

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  California Sunshine

  It is the most helpless feeling in the world when our little ones are sick and we can't kiss away the boo boos. My thoughts are with you. Kids are tough, I know because I saw my beautiful granddaughter recover from a life threatening illness. Hope you little sweetie pie is home soon.

  So sorry to hear of your step-daughters Uncle too. Saying goodbye is such a sad part of life.

  Sunny sending you a hug.....
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  65

  Amazing's Triumph - Mixed Feelings

  by Perry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  amazing wrote:.

  "i was able to get my wife and children out, and this led to my son-in-law and a close friend leaving at the same time.

  so, i am among the more fortunate in that my immediate family, and non-jw friends and relatives were all there with me as i exited.

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  California Sunshine

  This is one of the BEST threads I have ever read.

  Thank you all from the bottom of my heart

  Sunny (learning every day)
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  7

  Damn the Organization

  by JWinSF in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after all, i've read franz's books and have seen all too often the way jws' normal familial emotions are rendered dead, inactive when one of their family members leaves the religion either through being dfd or by daing.. back in october 2001 i sent two gifts to my uncle and aunt in detroit.

  they stopped having contact with me except for a thank-you letter when i did a similar thing about one year previously.

  i know that this recent gift was received as the on line ups tracking link showed the recipient's last name.

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  California Sunshine

  John,

  Please except my heartfelt sympathy on the passing of your Uncle.

  Sunny

  minds are like parachutes--they only function when open.

  In a world of peace and love, music would be the universal language...Thereau
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  18

  Part 8: Defining Moment - visit with Ray Franz

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i asked jesus to help me be just a christian, and no more religion in my life.

  when he answered, i told him who i was, and that i just sent off a letter ... but i wanted to talk to him to see if he might be available on the weekend i was there.

  ray would not hear of it, and asked me to stay at his home for the weekend with he and his wife.

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  California Sunshine

  *********his writings became the gate key to my liberty.**********

  You can open any door.......

  All you need is the key and the courage to turn it in the lock!

  Looking forward to tomorrow's episode.

  Sunny

  minds are like parachutes--they only function when open.

  In a world of peace and love, music would be the universal language...Thereau
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  5

  23 Years Later, My First Sheperding Call..........

  by YHWHWho in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  recently while passing by my front door i observed 2 witness's coming to my door, as well as a whole mini van packed with more.

  apparently it was again time to do the 5 year service of the town i live in.

  well, me being me, i continued on and plopped down on the couch and grabbed the remote.

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  California Sunshine

  Hi YHWY...

  Maybe this will help you.

  I must give freeman the credit for it. He posted it after I had a situation at home where in someone who called on my husband brought him an article in the WT saying that Dsfpg was a "loving" (sudden nausia) practice. I don't think he will mind if I pass it on to you.

  I wish to thank freeman, Dakota Red and Gopher for the help they gave me at that time. The situation I spoke about is still in limbo. I haven't had a chance to give the material to the person concerned. I'm patiently waiting (no pun intended waiting) for him to call back on my husband.

  Sunny

  so here ya go:

  The point of this writing is to demonstrate by way of scripture that the Watchtower Society's current shunning doctrine and practices do not adhere to the Bible and this is why I am at odds with this practice of shunning.

  The primary scripture for consideration is:

  But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.--1.Cor. 5:11 (NWT)

  The text is clear that a person with whom the congregation should not mix company is one who is:
  1) "called a brother" (that is, one who professes to be a member of the congregation); and
  2) practicing fornication, greed, idolotry, reviling (insulting), habitual drunkeness, and/or extortion (theft).

  The scripture mentions only these serious wrongdoings, however, Jehovah's Witnesses do disfellowship and shun people for the following reasons:

  No longer claiming to be called a brother/sister.
  Independent study and discussion of the Bible that brings Watchtower doctrine into question.
  Possession of literature written by former members.
  Having lunch, dinner etc. with a former member, even if the former member professes to be a Christian and was not disfellowshipped for fornication, greed, idolotry, reviling, drunkeness, or extortion as the above scripture outlines.

  Authorizing for a minor in one’s care or one’s self a blood transfusion, provided the components of this transfusion are not on the approved list of minor components.

  And numerous other actions never mentioned in scripture, but deemed by the congregation elders to be "unclean conduct," or "conduct unbecoming" of a Jehovah's Witness, smoking is such an example. Therefore "conduct" in this case covers a very broad range of actions not defined by scripture and thus leaving it to the discretion of the congregation's elders. As a result, standards by which people may be disfellowshiped are inconsistent.

  Now consider this portion of the scripture sited below:

  "Not to be mixing in company with" . . . "not even eating with . . ."
  Here it is important to learn the customs of association for worship practiced by first-century Jews and Christians, bearing in mind that Jesus and the apostles were Jews. They lived according to the Jewish lifestyle and customs of their day. Jesus taught in the synogogues; hence, he was called "Rabbi." Matt.26:25; 26:49; Mark 9:5; 11:21; 14:25; John 1:38, 49; 3:2, 26; 4:31; 6:25; 9:2; 11:8
  There were two kinds of association for religious worship:

  1) public meetings, such as at the temple and in synogogues, which anyone was allowed to attend; and

  2) private gatherings of the different sects.
  Christians and Jews participated in both. Christians, met in private homes, usually over a special meal with prayer. A presiding minister hosted the meal using either fellowship funds or personal funds. (Acts 20:20; see the footnote in older editions of the NWT)

  Christians were instructed to "greet" one another with a kiss. (Rom.16:16; 1.Cor.16:20; 2Cor.13:12; Ti.3:15; 1Pet.5:14) When Paul sent his "greetings" in a letter to the Christians in Thessalonica, he requested that the "brothers" be greeted by a "holy kiss" on his behalf. (1Thess.5:26)

  If you recall, it was by this sign that Judas betrayed Jesus. (Luke 22:47,48)

  Clearly, Paul did instruct Christians to expel from the congregation's fellowship any person who was purposely practicing willful sin. The disassociation would quite naturally exclude them from being greeted by the identifying "holy kiss," as well as not being allowed to share in meetings and the meals for Christian worship and prayer. However, Paul's instruction did not prohibit normal conversation or witnessing to former members. Nor were they barred from attending worship in the temple or the synagogues. Jesus, the apostles and Paul, along with the rest of the Jews, worshipped God both publicly in the temple and synagogues, and privately with small groups in various homes. (Acts 5:42) It was from the private Christian fellowship for worship that sinners were excluded.
  Now what of 2 John 10,11?

  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.--2 John 11 (NWT)

  FACT: The above scripture is not about people who have been expelled from the Christian congregation. When read in context, it is about anyone who "does not bring this teaching" [of the Christ]. Because they held congregation meetings in their homes (which might be little more than a dug-out or tent outside the city walls of Jerusalem), in their culture their neighbors might view inviting a non-Christian into the home as the Christian sharing worship with non-Christians
  Jehovah's Witnesses, while shunning disfellowshipped or disassociated persons, do not prohibit them from attending the congregation meetings at their Kingdom Halls. Yet the congregation was specifically where Paul instructed Christians not be be "mixing in company with" disfellowshipped sinners.

  If the scripture at 2 John 10 were observed literally by Jehovah's Witnesses, they would be obliged to never invite anyone other than a Jehovah's Witness in good standing into their home, or ever speak a greeting to anyone other than a Jehovah's Witness. Does this make sense?

  How did Jesus say one expelled from congregation should be treated?
  Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations ['Gentile' in some translations] and as a tax collector.--Matt.18:15-17 (NWT)

  The instruction was to bring up the matter of sin first between the two individuals alone. Then, if the sinner would repent, there was no need to carry the matter further. If the sinner was not repentant, then one or two others should be sought for witnesses. If the sinner remained unrepentant, only then, as a last resort, should it BE BROUGHT BEFORE THE ENTIRE CONGREGATION and not privately with the "elders as is now the practice.

  If, after all that, the person still would not listen, he should then be treated the same as Gentiles and tax collectors. In other words, Christians were to treat former members just like anyone else who was not a member of the congregation. To be treated like a "man of the nations" (which is to say, a Gentile or foreigner). This is far removed from being shunned. Jewish people worked with, associated with, transacted business with, and preached to Gentiles. As for "tax collectors," Jesus ate and associated with them. Matthew was a tax collector. Tax collectors were not popular, but they were not shunned.

  Note the example Jesus presents us with: "Next, while passing along from there, Jesus caught sight of a man named Matthew seated at the tax office, and he said to him: "Be my follower." Thereupon he did rise up and follow him. Later, while he was reclining at the table in the house, look! many tax collectors and sinners came and began reclining with Jesus and his disciples. But on seeing this the Pharisees began to say to his disciples: "Why is it that your teacher eats with tax collectors and sinners?"

  Hearing [them], he said: "Persons in health do not need a physician, but the ailing do. Go, then, and learn what this means, 'I want mercy, and not sacrifice.' For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners."---Matt 9:9-13 NWT

  Conclusion

  There is no basis in scripture for mandating that Christians must totally shun former members (that is, to have no communication or conversation with them). The instruction is very clear to expel them from the congregation to keep it clean but to treat them like anyone else who is not a member. To go beyond what the scriptures teach, no matter how well intentioned is simply wrong!

  I believe I have adequately demonstrated by way of scripture that the Watchtower Society's current shunning doctrine and practices do not adhere to the Bible and the example of Christ, and therefore that is why I myself will not adhere to this practice. I truly believe this is a destructive and divisive policy and practice. Further I will not let children under my care be improperly influenced by what I consider an abhorred and un-Christian practice and therefore I will denounce this practice both publicly and privately as necessary for their protection.

  minds are like parachutes--they only function when open.

  In a world of peace and love, music would be the universal language...Thereau
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  22

  Part 7: Resignation into the Void

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  part 7: resignation into the void .

  the memorial was now past ... and the moment of final decision arrived.

  i could no longer continue on being a jw, or at least serving in an appointed position of any kind.

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  California Sunshine

  Hi Amazing..

  As I write this the Rams are down 7 points. I hope they come back to win this thing, even if its for old time sake.I was a big fan when they were in LA. I went to the games when the "fearsome foursome" were playing (late 60s). I sure had a great time. Never forget some of those games.

  I've enjoyed all the episodes of your story and am looking forward to the rest.

  It must have been devistating to you to lose your faith in the WTS. You had invested so much of your life in it. Even to feeling you were one of the anointed. How tough it must have been.

  Sunny
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  21

  Part 5: The Beginning of the End

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  part 5: the beginning of the end .

  note: from this point forward begins not only my final journey out of the jws, but even more bizarre and twisted turns in the road.

  i hope you all find this interesting, because to me it only gets more intriguing and weird for the 3 12 years following january 1992... moment of decision: i can point back to the mountain top visit with god, or maybe today i might call it a visit with my higher power, whomever she/he/it might be.

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  California Sunshine

  keep em coming....

  (lets hope ALOT of Elders are lurking)

  Sunny
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  6

  For poster of the month, I nominate...

  by TweetieBird in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  tatiana.

  for sharing with us her experience of "brotherly love".

  if you have not taken the time to read it, i highly recommend.. "if love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?

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  California Sunshine

  When you become a "true" JW you give up your humanity.

  I have read of some sad experiences in my day but this takes the cake.

  It has my vote.

  Sunny........sadly wiping tears away.